Paint colours

The Japanese WW2 fighter. This kit is virtually all metal and available from DeAgostini at http://www.model-space.com

Paint colours

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Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:23 pm

Over the past couple of weeks or so I have been looking at this model and then researched colours.

This build will reference the Model 21 naval variant of the zero. My main research was on the colours used by this aircraft on the Pearl Harbour raid and I have found alot of confusing and sometimes misleading information around the web.

It seems that from the naval paint swatch still surviving there were two overall colours that his particular variant was painted. Paint, as we know changes colour over a period of time due to exposure to sunlight and the elements. This doesn't make things very easier. but I want to start inside first.

The airframe and skin interior was covered in a translucent blue/green tinted anti-corosion paint called Aotake Iro. The hue actually changes colour with the light, sometimes it is blue and sometimes this is green. Lifecolor produce this and is referenced as LC -UA136

The cockpit could have been one of two colours depending on the factory it was made in

N.4 Light grey green Matched to Vallejo Model Colour 70830
N.5 Bamboo Matched to Tamiya XF71

Exterior colour

At the time of Pearl Harbour it appears that the model 21's used on the raid had colour N10 overall. THere were two variant colours of N.10 and I believe that they were factory based.

N.10a Lifecolor match LC-UA021
N.10b Tamiya match XF-12

The first colour is a pale grey and the second colour is a pale green. I have also found that alot of people think that the colour was also an off white. Quite alot of black and white photos do show that these aircraft were very pale in the actual colour and I would personally like to paint this aircraft in VMC 70993 White grey.

The actual translation of the colour comes out as Light or Ash Grey.

I would be interested to see what the rest of the forum thinks about the exterior colour.

James
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:07 pm

I am returning to this subject as I have found more research and information on this.

First of all, I have found a custom paint manufacturer who can provide 400ml paint areosols for 9.99+VAT. After speaking to them on the phone I will be sending them a bottle of the Lifecolour Aotake (UA-136) for them to match. The paint will be solvent based and they say that there will be no need for priming! One stop spray with a correctly matched colour. They also tell me that the paint can also be used on plastic models with no ill effect!

I Won't post a link to their website. Mark keeeps on yelling at me for advertising!!!!! :naughty: :hand:

ON to the Zero colours.

Zeros were made in two factories. Mitsubishi and Nakajima. THe paint colours were just very slightly different.

After revisiting my notes and lots of suring. It seems that for 1941 (Pearl Harbour etc) Zeros coming off the production line were painted overall in this colour

Mitsubishi Zero

Factory Fresh
FS 24201
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=24201

Nakajima

Factory Fresh
FS 16350
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=16350

THe cowling and canopy deck area were painted a dark blue-black. Samples from both Mistubishi and Nakajima do not seem to have any noticable difference according to what I have found.
FS-25042
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=25042

However, on active service the overall paint on the aircraft quickly weathered and oxidised. Samples of the oxidised paint were matched to the following:

Mistubishi

FS-36357
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=36357

Nakajima

FS-36495
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=36495

The Cowling, according to research seemed to oxididise to the following hue
FS-26081
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=26081

The paint would also be a gloss colour. This seems to be the best I can come up with after wading through too many opinions and websites. Remember, black and white and early colour photos DO NOT give exact colours. Only original paint chips and surviving parts etc can do that. I have tried my best to give you all the closest colours I can. In 1943 the colours changed. I will do these on a new post.

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Re: Paint colours

Postby bufferz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:54 pm

Cheers for that, will come in very handy.....Can you PM me the company, as spraying the aotake without messing around with primer, etc would be a godsend!
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:59 pm

I will be sending them the paint and colour references on Monday. Could you wait a little while I set things up?
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Re: Paint colours

Postby Mark » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:28 pm

You can post a link to the company James. I'm quite happy for a one off post of a link to a supplier that is relevant to what members are building.
(It's the QVC style posts that are out of place.)
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Re: Paint colours

Postby bufferz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:55 pm

snapdragon wrote:I will be sending them the paint and colour references on Monday. Could you wait a little while I set things up?


Oh God yes, not building it till i finish my degree in September... :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:28 pm

THis morning I recieved my aotake paint rattle tin and have just tried it.

However, the batteries in my camera proved to be as flat as ...... well you get the picture so to speak. I will post a picture when they have recharged!!!!!!!!!!!!

From what I have seen with my own eyes, it is a match and needs no primer.

Here are the details:

Website

http://www.cjaerosols.com/

Here is what it says on the rattle spray tin:

AOTAKE (Lechler 130)

For those building this then I think that it is an absolute boon. It will save lots of time.

I also sent them a list of the original and faded colours for the Zero that we are building along with FS matches. I have a PDF document available should you want it. I can't seem to post the table on here!!!

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Re: Paint colours

Postby chill » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:42 pm

I still think the bare metal finish looks superb.
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:57 pm

here is the picture

Image
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Re: Paint colours

Postby baby_astons » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:54 pm

would you have a piccie without the psychedelic blue/lillac backdrop? a bit hard to judge the parts like this...
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:47 am

Hi There BA

Your wish is my command. This picture was taken in natural sunlight - Just for you! :D

Image
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Re: Paint colours

Postby baby_astons » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:55 am

ah! good man!! really looking superbly - will it adhere properly without a base coat - I mean in working conditions?
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:49 am

It seems to werk as advertised. Spray on and leave to dry and cure. Normally I give paints like this a minimum of 12 hrs, but usually leave it overnight so it gets between 18-24 hrs to cure and dry properly.

Silly me did make a mistake and forgot to drill the required 0.7 & 1mm holes prior to spraying. After drilling and filing smooth there has been some damage to the paint. The damage was done during the filing smooth process and took the paint off back to the metal, but another spray in the areas affected should be able to cover and hide this with no effect at all.

In general handling etc after the paint has fully cured it doesn't rub off or anything like that and stays where it has been put.

Zero builders who are wanting and accurate Aotake spray for their airframe, and indeed a spray for the exterior skin then I can reccomend this - and it doesn't smell much at all. The company has a copy of my colour research and should be able to provide you with the paint matches for both original and weathered paints for Pearl Harbour aircraft and the late war (1943 onwards) colours in rattle paint spray can.

I will, a little later post on the national insignia and will, of course include colours and Matching FS numbers where possible. I think that decals on an aircraft this size will detract. The effect would be much better with sprays and masks.

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Re: Paint colours

Postby bufferz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:23 pm

Excellent work there Snap, a K for you for that...Im thinking of doing mine bare metal, but aotake for the under carriage-y bits, rather than the whole plane aotake, will definitely be buying from these guys :clap:
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:35 pm

I have today ordered three arosols from the paint guys to the cost of £35 plus a few pence. That's a tenner per can plus vat and because I ordered more than one I get free shipping.

I have found out that they don't do FS colours but Pantone, BS, RAL etc they do. I therefore have spent quite a lot of time matching between systems. They have comparison charts etc.

I have ordered another Aotake can (When ordering use the Pantone and put AOTAKE in the paint colour, also choose silk and acrylic options.)

I have yet to veryfy the following colours that I have ordered, but they are suposed to match the equvalent FS number:

RAL 5008 Grey Blue (cowling, Engine, undercart, Machine guns) this should look almost black but with a slight dark blue tint. Ordered in Acrylic with a silk sheen.

http://www.leighspaintsonline.co.uk/ral-5008-grey-blue-917-p.asp

RAL 7035 Light Grey (Overall, Pearl Harbour Zero, Fresh paint.) This colour matches the official Japanese paint chip N10 Ash Grey (dated September 1941). It also corobborates survivors accounts that Japanese fighter aircraft were a "Very pale, almost white colour with some having a greenish tinge" - they were flying that low!

http://www.leighspaintsonline.co.uk/ral-7035-light-grey-377-p.asp

It is therefore, IMHO that some Zero aircraft's paint jobs were oxidising due to the salt air, thus the greenish tinge While some were band new paint jobs. If anyone wants me to, I will try and match surviving oxidised paints. You may see slightly different shades from the links above depending on your monitor and graphics card settings.

Please watch this space as I will try the paints when they come and report back to you all.

Once again, thoughts and comments more than welcome.

James
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Re: Paint colours

Postby morrigan » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:07 pm

Pity that being aerosol they can't be shipped downunder as the Aotake looks very good.
I know a panelbeater locally that will colour match and make a batch of the required colours for me, only thing is the smallest quantity they can make is one litre. :doh:
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Re: Paint colours

Postby bufferz » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:44 pm

morrigan wrote:Pity that being aerosol they can't be shipped downunder as the Aotake looks very good.
I know a panelbeater locally that will colour match and make a batch of the required colours for me, only thing is the smallest quantity they can make is one litre. :doh:


You were going to do the whole plane in a dozen coats of that colour anyway werent you ? :D
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Re: Paint colours

Postby baby_astons » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:54 pm

hmhm morrigan, maybe you could convince them to send the paint without filling it in the rattle can, I did that a few times with my supplier...
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Re: Paint colours

Postby snapdragon » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:03 pm

You could try BA's useful suggestions.

Maybe this listing may help too

http://www.manta.com/world/Oceania/Australia/paint_manufacturers--E8353000/

http://www.houseofkolor.com.au/index.htm

Alternatuvly you could ask for surface shipping

EDIT:

Nearly forgot. The original colour I sent to them was the Lifecolor Aotake. UA-136. I think that you should be able to get that in Australia
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Re: Paint colours

Postby morrigan » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:01 pm

baby_astons wrote:hmhm morrigan, maybe you could convince them to send the paint without filling it in the rattle can, I did that a few times with my supplier...


Thanks BA, might give that a try as I have an airbrush or two or three.

snapdragon wrote:You could try BA's useful suggestions.

Maybe this listing may help too

http://www.manta.com/world/Oceania/Australia/paint_manufacturers--E8353000/

http://www.houseofkolor.com.au/index.htm

Alternatuvly you could ask for surface shipping

Good thought, might do that for the exterior colours since thats a wee while away!
Thanks for the link Snaps, I shall investigate :D

EDIT:

Nearly forgot. The original colour I sent to them was the Lifecolor Aotake. UA-136. I think that you should be able to get that in Australia
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